Give the Eden Editor a Chance (Rant About Zeus/Missions)

General Discussions
1

Zeus Missions are the great. It allows any player to create fantastic missions such as, assassinations, special operations, combined arms, convoys, and full blown assaults. But, it does not come without its flaws. I believe the Eden Editor should be apart of the NAK server in some shape or another, here’s why.

Zeusing
Starting a Zeus op has many issues. From what I have observed of normal operations; it takes 20 to 30 minutes to create a mission, 20 minutes to get people/get leadership, 5 minutes to fix issues and bugs, and 1 hour to play. Half of the prep time is people stuck in the arsenal, playing tactical Barbie Doll; while they sit in complete silence until someone volunteers to be a leader. This is absolutely ridiculous.
Creating a Zeus op can be even worse. As a Zeus, you are required to put up with the Players, the AI, game restrictions, server requirements, bugs, and so much more. Pressure is put on the Zeus to handle these without fail. At its current state, with the time requirements and restrictions, Zeus is focused on quantity over quality.
This is not to say every Zeus mission is bad. There are absolutely FANTASTIC Zeus’ in NAK, especially the admins. NAK Ops, Custom Campaigns, PVP ops, and even meme ops can be a blast. The only issue is there can be so much more put into a mission if time and game restrictions weren’t in the way.

The Eden Editor
for the past 2 weeks, I have been learning the mechanics of the game as well as scripting (I am well rounded in programing, so it comes as second nature). From this, I have come to the conclusion, by ALL measures, Eden is simply better. This is obvious to many people, but unrecognized. The amount of detail that can be put into an operation is unparoled compared to that of Zeus. I’m not talking more objects or skin follicles on an AIs model. I’m talking creative detail. Actual Quick reaction forces that aren’t just spawned in over the rainbow. Actual Tank divisions that don’t suddenly pop into existence on top of the players. And Actual mission objectives that can be done WITHOUT the Zeus present. Here’s an example: In the Tanoa server, Tac Tuesdays specifically, AI respawn functionally to the players decision. If the players take too long, the AI let them know. If the players have moved in to a high priority target, so will the AI.
Controlling the airspace can be a legitimate function rather than having 6 random friendly jets laying waste to the ground, or a random gun run from an A-10 that just so happened to be nearby, only to be never seen again. Many times in while playing Zeus, I hear this…
" briefing jargen → mission start → 10 minutes in the mission Command: ‘Oh btw, squad you guys have mortars n planes now lol XD’. "
It forms as a function to make Zeus missions “easier” if the players are struggling. With the Eden Editor, Players can start with fire support and have it through the entire mission. Using triggers, you can set timers on that support, and let your players know that they have an asset that can be used effectively for the time being.
Loadouts can be pre-made, which completely eliminates the long minutes spent in the arsenal and, the need for players to ask “wHat ArE tHe ReStTiCtIiOnS” when the are in BOLD TEXT ON THE MAP.
Lastly, here is my absolute favorite part of the Eden Editor. You can make a mission, save it, then turn off your computer. It can be absolutely INFURIATING to create a large mission, only to have to wait an hour for enough people to join. That time restraint is completely removed because, you can always have a mission on the backburner. Missions can be scheduled reliably. You could go as far as repeating the same mission file in case the players want to approach it differently, or if the mission had to end abruptly. No doubt, Eden Missions take 2, 3, 5, even 10 times longer to create than Zeus missions. But it will always be on the mission creators time. No one else has to wait, no more virtual Barbie.

Issues With Eden
Like Zeus, Eden has problems. There will still be bugs. There will always be bad missions. Not everyone knows how to use the editor; that is why people chose Zeus over creating public missions. Unlike Zeus, Eden missions can’t be run on and off 24/7. Eden is complex. Many modules, behaviors, and scripting is limited by the capabilities of the user. I myself, have only scratched the surface of what Eden is capable of. That still does not discount the people who DO know how to use it. I know for a fact, there are people in NAK that can make incredible missions using the Editor, and I think it has to be shared.

Final Comments/Limits
This message is primarily directed towards the admins of NAK.
I am not knowledgeable of how to run a server.
I have a great deal of respect to everyone who helps keep this server going, especially the admins.
I have no ground to speak on how you base your rules and management.
Many of the points I have made have definitely already been said by other people before, or considered by server admins. I think this should be questioned seriously.
The likelihood of this being met with a single paragraph response is high, that which I am fine with.
Please, take a step back, try to make an in depth mission on the Eden editor, then try to recreate it in Zeus.
I believe there is merit to this argument, and I will stand by it.
I would love any feedback/criticism on my argument. It would be greatly appreciated.

TL;DR
Zeus Good, Eden Better

2

Before I address the specific points I’ll address the overall subject of making Eden missions. So to get an Eden mission onto the server you need to create the mission in your own editor, pack that mission into a PBO, and an admin with back-end access to the Zeus server needs to upload it onto the server. This requires a great deal of trust that we normally only extend to Majors or above. Players can put anything they want in the PBO files, viruses, trackers, malware, bloatware, ransomware, and so on. It gives you a much greater control over the operation of the server. Most admins don’t have the ability to upload missions, as far as I know only Chiefs of Staff (claws01, C0p0ut, Moon) and the Zeus manager (myself) have the access to put PBOs on the server. Now on to specific points.

“Starting a Zeus op has many issues. From what I have observed of normal operations; it takes 20 to 30 minutes to create a mission, 20 minutes to get people/get leadership, 5 minutes to fix issues and bugs, and 1 hour to play. Half of the prep time is people stuck in the arsenal, playing tactical Barbie Doll; while they sit in complete silence until someone volunteers to be a leader. This is absolutely ridiculous.”

I agree, however, this is more the fault of the Zeus, not zeusing itself. After the Zeus creates a mission they should say “okay guys, mission will start in 5 minutes, have leadership ready if you don’t have your loadouts done I’ll teleport you to the mission after you’re ready.”. As a Zeus managing the players is part of your responsibility, insist and give time limits.

“Creating a Zeus op can be even worse. As a Zeus, you are required to put up with the Players, the AI, game restrictions, server requirements, bugs, and so much more. Pressure is put on the Zeus to handle these without fail. At its current state, with the time requirements and restrictions, Zeus is focused on quantity over quality.
This is not to say every Zeus mission is bad. There are absolutely FANTASTIC Zeus’ in NAK, especially the admins. NAK Ops, Custom Campaigns, PVP ops, and even meme ops can be a blast. The only issue is there can be so much more put into a mission if time and game restrictions weren’t in the way.”

“Players, the AI, game restrictions, server requirements, bugs, and so much more” Putting up with players shouldn’t be a chore, if one or more players are lowering the enjoyment of the mission for everyone else report it to an admin. As rule #4 states: “Griefing or Harassment is viewed as the act of intentionally irritating and angering users through the use of language, forcing team kills, hampering or interfering with other users use of a server, or being a general annoyance to the server and more.”. Dealing with AI is something you need to deal with on the Eden editor as well, we can’t fix bohemia’s AI. There’s a mod that aims to fix it, we’re discussing that internally. I’m unaware about game restrictions and server requirements. Bugs are just Arma being Arma.

“Actual Quick reaction forces that aren’t just spawned in over the rainbow. Actual Tank divisions that don’t suddenly pop into existence on top of the players.” This is more the issue of Zueses than Zeusing in and of itself. Things should be spawned far enough away from the players (about 1km), or behind tree lines or buildings. Players should never see something spawn in. If a Zeus does this it’s something to bring up during de-brief so they can do better next time.

"In the Tanoa server, Tac Tuesdays specifically, AI respawn functionally to the players decision. If the players take too long, the AI let them know. If the players have moved in to a high priority target, so will the AI. "

Tanoa has the Quicksilver framework, like the Altis server has the Invade & Annex framework, the AI is built into the Tanoa’s Quicksilver framework.

“Controlling the airspace can be a legitimate function rather than having 6 random friendly jets laying waste to the ground, or a random gun run from an A-10 that just so happened to be nearby, only to be never seen again. Many times in while playing Zeus, I hear this…
" briefing jargen → mission start → 10 minutes in the mission Command: ‘Oh btw, squad you guys have mortars n planes now lol XD’. "
It forms as a function to make Zeus missions “easier” if the players are struggling. With the Eden Editor, Players can start with fire support and have it through the entire mission. Using triggers, you can set timers on that support, and let your players know that they have an asset that can be used effectively for the time being.”

Again, this is something Zeuses should be better at, and a lot of Zeuses are very effective at making supporting forces dynamic. If you notice something like this, bring it up in de-brief so the Zeus knows.

“Loadouts can be pre-made, which completely eliminates the long minutes spent in the arsenal and, the need for players to ask “wHat ArE tHe ReStTiCtIiOnS” when the are in BOLD TEXT ON THE MAP.”

I agree, though I don’t think Eden missions will solve this as it goes into being overly restrictive, which is not allowed. You can dress up a unit beside the arsenal and ask that the players use a variation of that uniform. You can’t, however, stop them from getting their loadout together, but you can start the mission without them if they’re taking too long.

“No doubt, Eden Missions take 2, 3, 5, even 10 times longer to create than Zeus missions”

Zeus mission should be no longer that 120 minutes, if no one else wants to Zeus, or 90 minutes if someone does. This time restraint may be restrictive, but other players should not have to wait 2 hours or more to be able to Zeus.

“But it will always be on the mission creators time. No one else has to wait, no more virtual Barbie.”

There will still be “virtual Barbie”, as you cannot chose a player’s loadout for them.

In closing, I understand that our rules and procedures may not be perfect and may not fit all player’s preferences. We have about 6 years of experience (we as in NAK, not me specifically) and these rules are a result of many debates, discussions, compromises, philosophical notions, and effort. At the end of the day, this is our server and this is how we choose to run it. However, I’m always open to debate and discussion on this topic.

3

Thank you Michael, I appreciate your response.

First, I am aware of the, " …overall subject of making Eden missions" that regard the server and trust between the staff and players. I don’t want this to be seen as me asking you to open a new server, download unknown files, or completely change the server setup; that is not my intention. The server is not required to do anything the players ask. The main point of my argument is there should be an option of the Editor. Such as inviting people to a temp-private server for a mission (without being accused of advertising/requiting).

“I agree, though I don’t think Eden missions will solve this as it goes into being overly restrictive, which is not allowed. You can dress up a unit beside the arsenal and ask that the players use a variation of that uniform. You can’t, however, stop them from getting their loadout together, but you can start the mission without them if they’re taking too long.” + “There will still be ‘virtual Barbie’, as you cannot chose a player’s loadout for them.”

In Zeus it seems you are ‘allowed’ to restrict ammo, launchers, uniforms, and optics (Nods/Thermals) People enjoy cosmetics. I don’t want to take that away as it gives uniqueness to everyone in the server. Restrictions aren’t meant to limit the players capability’s. It’s a method to outline what the mission will entail regarding enemy force. It’s important to define otherwise you will get people with 40mm grenade launchers in a civilian dense mission or, they will chose a uniform that matches that of the Opfor (It has happened many times before). Eden can solve this by having players spawn in with the weapon and uniform asked to be used. This applies to operator roles as well. Machine Gunner, AT Specialist, AA Specialist, EOD, etc. This way, all the player needs to pick is face wear, and maybe their preferred ammo. It won’t entirely fix the amount of time spent in the arsenal playing dress up, but it will significantly cut down on it.

“Again, this is something Zeuses should be better at, and a lot of Zeuses are very effective at making supporting forces dynamic. If you notice something like this, bring it up in de-brief so the Zeus knows.”

That’s my point, Zueses don’t have to be good or bad at making them dynamic if they are already created to be dynamic.

“Zeus mission should be no longer that 120 minutes, if no one else wants to Zeus, or 90 minutes if someone does. This time restraint may be restrictive, but other players should not have to wait 2 hours or more to be able to Zeus.”

Again, the time restraint is nearly eliminated when you create a loaded mission. In the most ideal scenario, a Zeus should be able to create a mission and immediately have the leadership figured out when they are finished. Will leadership still be an issue with Eden? Absolutely. How can it be solved? Let the players know what they are getting into first, then get a volunteer for leadership. With the text briefing section on the map, a mission creator shows a summary of what the team is getting into. This encourages people by letting them know what they are getting themselves into. No one likes a shot in the dark.

I would like to talk with you more about it, 1 to 1. That way we can get each others understanding on the matter. I am not a huge fan of shooting back and forth on a public forum. This is not meant to be aggressive in anyway whatsoever if it may seem that way. It’s hard to convey speech mannerisms over writing, as well as I haven’t covered everything on the topic that I wanted to.