HALO Jumping on ALTIS

Should Halo jumping be altered?

  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

NOTE: I am not an administrator on any of the Official NAK servers and I am not a web administrator of any kind. I do not claim to be one or act in such a way that would be disrespectful to those who are.

HALO JUMPING: A discussion

Halo jumping(in its current state) is an effective way of getting from spawn to the AO or Side Mission extremely quickly.
It takes less than a few seconds to accomplish.
and it is accessible by everyone.

After talking to a handful of individuals on team speak, I have decided to write this post to express the interest of the topic/issue of some of the Team-speak regulars.

What I would like to discuss with the NAK Community is:

The Possibility of removing HALO jumping from everyone but recon units.

While talking to members of the community about this topic, conclusions were relatively the same.
Halo jumping was causing an imbalance of fluidity on the server in regards to roles. Mainly due to pilot/soldier roles.

Members expressed their interests and as they did I took notes.
I paid attention to their opinions and tried to develop
a pro and cons type of list in regards to removing HALO jumping, compiled from voiced opinions of the community, to attribute to this post so the rest of the community could coherently see with minimal difficulty.

****__Opinions of the community compacted into a pros and cons.PRO:

  • Force greater squad play


  • Allow for friendships to be formed within the community by forcing helicopter squad deployments


  • Possibly influence a greater sense of teamwork between players


  • It could allow helicopter pilots to actually participate in the key role of transportation.


  • It could eliminate boredom generated among pilots waiting for the next AO.


  • It could force pilots to have a responsibility of said pilot slot on the server


  • It could increase server popularity due to a higher level of involvement required between players to accomplish goals.


  • A smaller increase in realism, but not to the point of unenjoyment due to seriousness or lack there of of some players.
    (Altis is a pretty relaxed server…)

CON:

  • It could draw people away from the server


  • Some individuals are true loners, which would remove the “lone wolf” aspect


  • It could cause an increased number if inexperienced pilots into slots because of the interest drawn from moving squads.


  • Helicopters or troop transports spawn times could interfere with a lack of available helicopters


  • Trolls

This is a small list of ideas/opinions from the community compiled together in hopes we could bring some awareness to the subject.

Hopefully we could discuss this topic/issue and possibly test out for a week or two some implementations.

Anyone can add to this list of pros and cons. I will be actively updating it as time goes on.

I look forward to hearing from you all about this.

IYAOYAS,
John W. Finn

Please do not consider this response a reason to stop continuing this topic. We would like to hear your feedback.

We, the Admins, have been discussing this recently. We understand your desires and we are working on solutions. One solution we will be implementing is our vision for the FULL-TAC server, which would include no halo. We have also disabled halo on our Zeus server. We may try removing Halo from one of the other primary servers as a test.

We generally feel that there are issues with removing halo from Altis. If anyone has solutions for the issues I mention below, I would consider, supporting, removing Halo from Altis.

  • What do we do if there are 10- 15 players online, most pilots choose to fly jets, so there may be no pilots for transport. The jets could have the AO mostly clear before infantry even gets to the AO with vehicles.
  • What do we do, if there is no Admin online, and a pilot continues to crash taking players to the AO. Players are going to leave the server.
  • There are other servers that offer, no halo options, why do you choose to play on NAK instead of there. ( This is a serious question not a backhanded comment.)

Again we "NAK Admins’ do hear your and we will be offering solutions to meet your requests.

VileAce

Base on server fps : Each time a player use Halo
server fps drop
50 FPS ----> 43 FPS until the unit touch the ground and all gear back

personally the frame rate drop doesn’t effect me I like the halo jump feature ,but I do understand the complaint from people about people haloing in to the AO and them accidentally team killing that person that haloed in ,or some say it takes the realism out if people can jump get there immediately , so I’m in between on the subject … Is there a way to remove halo once a certain amount of people have joined or if there are elite pilots or something I don’t know … I support what ever you guys choose… I like the sever no matter what.

Keep it. At the very least if you have someone that’s been waiting on a helo they can get back to the AO quickly, especially if they’re trying to rejoin a squad that’s waiting on them. I personally use it all the time, to get around the map, (used to) get to the Elite area and rewards, drop into side missions, or if I get shot down at low altitude but the helicopters survives and is sitting there to pick it back up. More freedom = awesomeness.

But hey, we all like to listen to a bunch of guys complaining on side chat why there isn’t a helicopter coming to pick them up!

By adding a conditional halo system, such as disable after a certain number of people are on the server of only after a certain number of pilots would slow the server down considerably. The script would have to run all the time, checking player roles or counting number of players. Even though this type of script would be a solution for some of my concerns, I do not know if the performance hit it worth it.

VileAce

Indeed

+1 to j.finn for this post. This is what I came across.
For the solutions to Vileace:

  1. What do we do if there are 10- 15 players online, most pilots choose to fly jets, so there may be no pilots for transport. The jets could have the AO mostly clear before infantry even gets to the AO with vehicles.
  • Nerf the jet, make it only AA like buzzard AA. And with new Jet DLC things will change how the jets damage model and overall. 3 jets not required. Personally the wipeout alone is very over-powered. The other jets can spawn as rewards.
    So less fighting for jets. More vortex pilots will focus on transporting people.
  1. What do we do, if there is no Admin online, and a pilot continues to crash taking players to the AO. Players are going to leave the server.
    We can keep an option for votekick a player, if the player(pilot) cannot play the role and crashes everytime.
    There are also way too many variants of helicopters. We could reduce them and keep only important ones.
    The rewards section could be near to our base.
  2. There are other servers that offer, no halo options, why do you choose to play on NAK instead of there. ( This is a serious question not a backhanded comment.)
    NAK is a fun server, the moment you get on. Players have donated to the server on the first play on the server like me.
    Rules are fine, as an adult we should follow the server rules but upto an extent where players can have fun and seriousness at the same time.
    By now I know there are players who play ARMA3 and they already know the rules unless they are intentional.

I hope this helps admins and other players of NAK, taking into consideration and removing HALO jump or limiting it to only snipers or selective roles.
How copy?

The only way i can see that the HALO jumping system will be used less is if players are rewarded in some way for flying to the ao and returning to the base after the objective is complete.

only way, will be to separate transport pilot / jet pilot :twisted:

+1 Claws01

I wanted to put my two cents into this discussion. I think have a a very simple and elegant solution: Move the flagpole approximately 500 meters from the current main HQ spawn.

Most players will hear/see the helicopters outside waiting immediately upon spawning. Think lazy: Do you want to walk 500 meters away to parachute in or ride in the helicopter that’s RIGHT there?

I think this solution solves many of the issues brought up in this discussion. If there are no or few pilots online, people will make the trek. It also delays “instantaneous” reinforcements. If there ARE transport pilots online, it will encourage players to ride in the helicopters and feel more immersion in the mission.

Thoughts?

Test it out for a month or two, or even schedule days where the members are notified if HALO is on or off. Then, tally up how many players were on the server on days where it is ‘on’ and days where it is ‘off’. That will tell you very quickly! Make the players your Beta testers.

Beta testing with a live server is not the way to go. It only takes one visit from a new user to make an opinion of the server. The main reason that people want Halo turned off is to give heli pilots something to do. Turning of a feature that is used by so many, to provide a solution to so few, does not seem like the wise thing to do. We do have Halo turned off on our Zeus server, and people still prefer to be teleported to the AO rather than fly in.
We are discussing options, Reds suggestion is the only one I have seen that address the concerns that were listed previously in the topic. If anyone has suggestions that address the concerns, please feel free to add them.

VileAce

Woohoo recognition!

A few thoughts. Ignore them as you please :stuck_out_tongue:
At present, even sans the interest of transport pilots, I think the HALO system is too overpowered. Players have no incentive to think when dropping in—because if they drop into the very middle, risk getting teamkilled (and then blaming others for their own bad positioning), or otherwise get killed, they can be back into the AO within 30-60 seconds as if nothing happened. And for that, they’re never required to learn anything of planning a proper ingress / egress / path from a safe DZ to the AOE. This, to me, results in a less coordinated and less friendly environment because it reinforces the interests of lone wolfs.
At minimum the HALO system should be limited, not necessarily removed, for that reason alone. Though, I suppose I’m thinking from a more realistic / milsim perspective here. I guess if you’re going for an arcade-type environment, the near instantaneous redeployment is ideal.


In regard to Vile’s question about why players choose NAK:
I (obviously) can’t speak for others, but for myself it’s a matter of two things. NAK servers often have plenty of people online and are a comparatively friendly environment. I’m not a lone wolf type, and I also enjoy flying transport aircraft, ergo I kinda’ need other players online to transport. To be blunt (and I absolutely mean no offense by this) I&A servers are a dime a dozen these days, however there aren’t many that A. allow a decent number of mods (if any at all) and B. have a decent number of players online at any given time. So, to me, that’s what NAK has on the table right now.
One thing is certain here; no matter what choice is made, there will be unhappy people in the end. The amount therein depends on how well / poorly this issue is handled—just like any other.

I have plenty of other game-balancing ideas, (most including practical methods of implementation) but sincerely can’t be bothered to type them out. :confused:

Mechanics Note:
There’s totally a way to limit HALO without lag (e.g. only if <x players / <x pilots). As a hint, the condition field of an addAction (when attached to an object that isn’t the player or AI) is only evaluated when a player is nearby, and depending on the condition code, evaluation can be done entirely on the client-side, making little to no impact on server load. With that, and perhaps a cleverly done eventHandler, the possibilities are limitless. I know this as a fact because we’ve done it on our server, and noticed little, if any, lag that could be attributed to those methods.
Don’t believe me? That’s fine; not my server lol

As far as scripting, that’s all I can say due to conflict of interest.

NO to removing HALO :angry:
Not even limiting to certain roles.

There are already other coop servers without HALO. People who mainly play as foot soldiers join and remain on NAK Altis server because there is HALO where we can get into AO fast, rejoin others asap, or go where ever we seem safe.

Players who get killed HALOing into the wrong areas of the AO are those who does not ever check the map in advance, and most probably have no idea what themselves are doing. They will learn where not to HALO after dying a few times, no big deal.

Some reasons foot soldiers do not take the heli:

  • waiting a long time for pickup,
  • heli getting shot down by AA,
  • having to walk 1000m to AO because the pilot is too afraid to land us closer,
  • pilots flying across or straight into AO or landing at hotzones too close to hostiles,
  • so called “i-know-how-to-fly” pilots who cant land properly, end up crashing heli,
  • reach AO by heli after a long wait and the mission finishes just in time.

And what if there are no pilots available? When some noob volunteers to fly transport, the above scenarios happen.

So if you only want to play as transport pilot, and:

  • who never fights on the ground, simply go to servers where there is no HALO.
  • gets get bored while waiting for the next AO, then help bring in tanks or other fighting vehicles for friendlies, people will use them even if nobody requests.

My suggestion:

  • Putting a time limit in between each HALO. I’ve seen it on another server, after a player HALO, there’s 60sec waiting time till next HALO. They will probably take transport HELI rather than wait.

I’m sure people agree that having HALO is one of the reasons that we enjoy playing on NAK Altis.

I agree with kuasmith, all the points are reasons why players normally HALO in. Many pilots crash or get shot down by AA, have to turn around because mission is over or even some pilots that can’t fly.

Implementing a time limit is a great idea. 60 seconds is alright but I think increasing to 2 mins will prompt players to consider taking a transport instead. Or even a radial HALO, so basically the HALO should only be allowed to HALO outside the AO, not in it. Forcing players to land outside the AO (500m -1km) and walking it, this will allow heli pilots to land closer or even inside the AO.

Changing the lobby slots needs to be a big thing. Most pilots end up being CAS so you get around 3 - 4 CAS Jets and rarely any helicopter pilots. There should be at max 2 jet pilot slots (CAS Only jet and an AA jet). Then increase the amount of pilot slots to 6, therefore more pilots are actually transport helicopters.

If this all gets changed, lets say a player dies, they have to wait 2 minutes at base, notice that helicopters are already available at the helipads.

I think the new 10 minute timer for Halo jump is too long. I can understand 3-5 minutes but 10 I believe is way too long. If we want to encourage more Heli Transports than I believe we should restrict the number of jet pilots too 2-3, Make that the jets are a good mix of both CAS and AA, Have about 5 Heli Pilot slots so theres a good mix of CAS Helis and Transport Helis, and have a reward for Pilots when they transport players and vehicles. Im not disagreeing with adding a Halo timer but I just believe that the timer is too long. Halo, Mods, and Player Base is what drew me too this server. Some things that concern me about this is the Pilots skill, the amount of AA in the AO, messing up halo jumps etc. This is all just my personal opinion. We all have our differences.

Why is the timer to long? How long to you to you normally stay alive at an AO? I think players on this server play to aggressive. If you work with at team and not lone wolf all the time most people will stay alive well past 10 min.

What reward could you give pilots?